Monday, August 4, 2008

Spiritual Sincerity

Am I a real seeker or am I a pretender?

How does one know for sure?

I want to be sincere but I fear that my environment is not conducive.

30 comments:

Alexander M Zoltai said...

I would never try to keep you from your intended search for "Spiritual Sincerety".

Being an astrologer, Tarot card reader, and I Ching interpreter for over 40 years now, I do, however, counsel you to never stop relying on your own judgements, no matter what other humans may say is the right Path.

The best help I can offer is this quote:

"they that tread the path of faith, they that thirst for the wine of certitude, must cleanse themselves of all that is earthly—their ears from idle talk, their minds from vain imaginings, their hearts from worldly affections, their eyes from that which perisheth. They should put their trust in God, and, holding fast unto Him, follow in His way. Then will they be made worthy of the effulgent glories of the sun of divine knowledge and understanding, and become the recipients of a grace that is infinite and unseen, inasmuch as man can never hope to attain unto the knowledge of the All-Glorious, can never quaff from the stream of divine knowledge and wisdom, can never enter the abode of immortality, nor partake of the cup of divine nearness and favour, unless and until he ceases to regard the words and deeds of mortal men as a standard for the true understanding and recognition of God and His Prophets."
Bahá’u’lláh, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 3

~ Alex

Mossy said...

I is not real. There is no I. However there is something there, where you are sitting. I can call it you but you can not call it me. :O)

Vincent said...

You are a pretender. If you are really something, wouldn't you know it?

Siegfried said...

We are all pretending. That we are not pretending. That we are self-absorbed.
There is no such thing as humility. Only pride or poverty.

Siegfried said...

Or that we are not self-absorbed.

Siegfried said...

Whatever. It is not important. It doesn't matter. Nobody can tell. Or we can always tell.

Siegfried said...

Everything is opinion. Right or wrong.
By their fruit you shall know them. Martyrs beget martyrs. Terrorists beget terrorists.
No good works. Only destruction.

Mossy said...

Just what exactly do you mean by ENVIRONMENT?

jh said...

if one sets out seeking
then the intuition for truth is pretty strong

the intellect
the mind
naturally seeks truth
some get passionate about it
some remain lethargic

you seem passionate

truth is a bit more serious
than dream interpretation

for some the whole thing gets worked out fairly simply
their intuition is satisfied by basic practices of faith
others expend all thier energy
pursuing matters on a mmore philosophical level

i don't know which end of things leads to more happiness

i take the books and experience routes
if god is love
we do well to sek that love

Sophia said...

Alex,

But if we're all God, then wouldn't the words of others also be the words of God?

Sophia said...

Mossy,

Here's a question for you. If everything we see and experience is maya, then is our belief in God just maya, too?

Sophia said...

Vincent,

From a very young age I've pretended to be me.

Sophia said...

Hi Siegfried,

Questions always lead to more questions.

Sophia said...

Mossy,

Just negativity in the air. I know I shouldn't speak ill of others but I'm trying to get my husband to stop cussing or being so negative so much. It causes me anxiety which I believe slows down my growth.

Sophia said...

Hi JH,

Everything puzzles me. Intellect and mind are ego, right? They cause thoughts which get in our way. Yet without them, we wouldn't be driven to seek enlightenment or truth.

I wonder if enlightened people know they're enlightened or if they just think they're enlightened. I want to feel it and to know it, not just think it.

I've recently found some books that really resonate with me, but I want to experience. Does anyone experience or do they just believe?

I know I'm being too selfish. I'm trying to get enlightened when there is a whole world out there that needs enlightenment.

Alexander M Zoltai said...

Sophia,

With all due respect, we are not all God.

First it's illogical to believe that.

Second, it is no help in our mortal lives...

~ Alex

Sophia said...

Alex,

What if we were all God but we just didn't know it yet? Not just us, but the animals and the insects, too, the rocks the mountains the valleys the stars the planets, everything. Sometimes I daydream that God just isn't aware yet that He's God. The beginning of the universe is the moment after God decided to forget himself, and that evolution is the process of God remembering himself. Where will consciousness evolve to next?

Alexander M Zoltai said...

Dream on, dear Sophia, dream on...

Dare I post a part of what I sent you about my beliefs:

We will "...never quaff from the stream of divine knowledge and wisdom, can never enter the abode of immortality, nor partake of the cup of divine nearness and favour, unless and until he ceases to regard the words and deeds of mortal men as a standard for the true understanding and recognition of God and His Prophets."

~ Alex

Mossy said...

Sophia,

I think that everything is relative.

We are very far from being conscious but it is possible for us to when when we are more conscious or less conscious. (eg When we are lost in negativity we are less conscious) Therefor it is practical to seek what is more real in each moment, even though none of it is absolutly real.

Faith in God is useful because if you are not watching carefully you might not notice the love letters he might be leaving you.

Perhaps we will never know with our minds that God is there. Only the heart can know-and to the mind-that is not real. It may be that mind/ego is the one thing standing between us and God.

I was beginning to wonder if we, your fellow bloggers, were the "wrong environment". :O)

jh said...

one thng i can say
all the major and most of the minor spiritual traditions will
agree that some form of discipline
is the context of the milieux for spiritual awareness

for me that has meant the daily
recitation and chanting
of the psalms
and hearing and reading scripture
and daily study of philosophy
and just hanging around
playing guitar with friends as well
as sort of a "play" discipline

Sophia said...

Alex,

But isn't every bit of scripture written by mortal man? Even the scripture you quote is written by mortal man?

Your beliefs are sacred to me.

Sophia said...

Mossy,

If God is leaving me love letters, it would be through you and my "fellow bloggers" in the comments you leave, and I can see no negativity in that. No, that wasn't the environment I speak of. It would just be easier for me if I lived the life of an ascetic in a cave, just as long as I had an Internet connection.

Sophia said...

JH,

I'm getting ready to start meditation again. I don't have very good self-discipline, and I know it's something I have to work on, but my goals are becoming more and more desperate. Maybe this is what happens to people when they turn 30. Is this the infamous midlife crisis everyone speaks about?

If I had a firm belief or knowledge about who or what God is, I could find a religion that offers some type of discipline for me. I can't find a religion that God fits into. Or maybe I'm just too lazy.

Thanks for your ideas. I am getting very close to doing something on a daily basis that would bring focus into my life.

Mossy said...

What about rainbows?

Mossy said...

You're doing fine.
Quit your belly- aching. :O)

Alexander M Zoltai said...

My Dear Sophia,

I never want to do anything that leads to an estrangement between us. I value your friendship and your spiritual quest is more than "reason" to be connected.

Still, when I read something that I disagree with, I feel it important to throw in my 2-cents.

You wrote: "But isn't every bit of scripture written by mortal man? Even the scripture you quote is written by mortal man?"

I have to answer: No, if the scripture is Real Scripture, it has not been written by a mortal man but by a Prophet or Manifestation of God, a distinctly different class of Being.

This is something not everyone does or can believe. All the more reason to not trust the words of mortals. Faith in the Words of Scripture is something between the person and God, no one else...

~ Alex

p.s. BTW, this series of posts is the best Conversation in a blog I've ever seen !!!

Sophia said...

Mossy,

Rainbows... oh yeah! I know I'm not supposed to get excited about such things anymore at my age, but I can't help myself.

Belly ache? I don't like spiritual pain. My mother and I were talking today about something my doctor said in 2000. "She has a low tolerance for pain." So I might whine a bit more than most people, or make a big deal out of an anthill.

Sophia said...

Alex,

I don't think it is possible that you could say or do anything that would lead to an estrangement, unless you tire of my sometimes unconventional beliefs. But then, they are not even beliefs of mine, just ponderings as I try to figure everything out.

I am not here to go it alone, which is why input from you is important to me.

You were posting the scripture, I think, because you were wanting me to not put so much faith in the words of mortal man. Yet, you say that scripture is a prophet of God. Why can't a spiritual master be a physical manifestation of God, or a prophet?

I'm glad you're enjoying these topics. I am too. While I know that thinking and overanalyzing things could take me further away from the goal, I wouldn't be able to make it in this world without an ego, and an ego must do things to keep itself occupied until it dies.

Alexander M Zoltai said...

Hey Sophia!

Thanks for your awesome Graciousness !!!

You asked:

"...you say that scripture is [from] prophet of God. Why can't a spiritual master be a physical manifestation of God, or a prophet?"

Since my whole premise rests on not trusting what mortals say, I'll leave the answer up to a Manifestation of God. The source in the following link is the best discourse on the whole issue of God's "Words"--through history up to the present day.

Even though I think the linked discourse is Scripture, my other premise is that you must use your own judgment to decide its truth or falsity:

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/

~ Alex

Sophia said...

There are so many different religions that I sometimes fear that I'll follow the wrong one and get damned. :(