Monday, November 21, 2005

A Little Nondual Chatter

If there is only One, then perhaps I (The Self, The One) felt lonely and had to create many illusions to not feel so alone.

21 comments:

'eliyahu ben 'avraham vaSarah said...

I have a vague memory of a midrash in the Talmud saying that God created life on earth because He was lonely. I'll see if I can locate the exact reference.

Donavon said...

Not only the One, but the infinite One. If you’re infinite, how do you get lonely?

jbmoore said...

Everything dreams and is asleep, the rocks, the plants, the animals are lost in form. People are waking up. Consciousness will be able to play with form while remaining awake instead of going to sleep. It's just the Universe evolving before us. Or am I dreaming! :-)

kitchenette soul said...

Identify yourself with the mind and its myraid joys and sorrows both of which are evanascent, you are lonely. Identify with the Ominipresent spirit in you as that around then YOU are just ONE.

Castor said...

I know for sure there is only one intelligence. It is the intelligence of the universe, but why it has manifested itself in myriads of form, I really don't know. Could it be that God or this cosmic intelligence loves to add, subtract, multiply, and divide? A bad mathematician? Or to experiment? A mad scientist?

Castor said...

About feeling lonely. I guess it is nature's way of increasing our chances of survival and multiplying.
If one becomes totally enlightened, he'll probably become less lonely, being one with everything, and may end up becoming disinterested and die an untimely death.
Some time ago I read that people who are undergoing enlightenment may actually experience some kind of burn-out and could become neurasthenic. So if it happens to you, don't panic. Just don't simulate it.
What I really think is that people first become neurasthenic, suffer burnout, maybe even have a nervous breakdown, due to worry, fear, loneliness, frustrations, depression, oppression, sorrow, and then recover as a result of some deep insight or "eureka" moment and become enlightened. Then they start having prolific energy, talents, and creativity.
Or just become silent, quiet and peaceful.
If these people were treated
improperly with the use of medication, and wrong analysis, advice, or suggestions, they may become worse and go crazy or insane. My advice therefore, before you consult a psychologist or psychiatrist, or take medication, is to find out if there is a chance that you might be really experiencing enlightenment. Or that your situation could lead to getting some big insights that might eventually lead to being enlightened.

Red Bark said...

Castor,

I looked up your name in mythology. Very interesting story.

I think that loneliness is the unrecognized desire to be with ones Self.

Dr. J said...

Beard,

I think you are right. I would go further too and say that there is a primordial longing that is at the root of existence. This longing often manifests to the ego as loneliness - the desire for company - but can also appear as desires of other kinds.

Waking up means starting to recognize this primordial longing for what it is. It's not going away, but neither is it a problem. And there is a sweetness in it, a liveliness in it.

The One manifests as Many in order to celebrate the beauty of this longing, and to explore the many ways it can be created, satisfied, disappointed, and dissolved.

~j~ said...

There is indeed only One, but that One is totally unapproachable, and completely irrelevant!

Relevance requires relationship.
Relationship requires at least two.

This deserves a great deal of consideration, but my concern here is the notion implied by the phrase "many illusions".

The popular Mystical concept that reality is an illusion is absurd!

Do you feel like an illusion?

While I recognize, and respect, that there are subtle realms of existense, I do not hold one realm as more "real" than another.

The demonization of the world, the body, and the entire Third Dimension underlies and undermines many spritual doctrines.

I believe

We are here
We are real
Life is divine
Now is the time

Red Bark said...

Hello Dr. J,

That is nice.

Yes there is a sweetness to it. I wonder if the Sufi poems about divine love are speaking about the same thing.

I like your cosmology but I have to say that I really do not know what the One is up to. That is theory for me, but loneliness is something I experience.

Red Bark said...

Hello ~J~,

I think that "reality" is an illusion.

I do not mean that physical objects are not physical objects(though this seems to be what the masters say) I can not know anything about that.

What I do know is that I am almost always "day dreaming" about something and taking it for a real experience. This is what I mean by an illusury life.
It is like taking a picture of an apple to be a real apple.


Most people do not think that they spend more than 99% of their time day dreaming and think that "illusion" refers to something mysterious or complicated. It is very simple and clear as are all esoteric facts. They are just hidden from us by our own delusions and made to sound complicated specifically for the purpose of obfuscation.

What do you think about this idea of day dreaming all the time?

rauf said...

Dear Stacy
Loneliness is a state of mind
so is heavean and hell.
We make these things ourselves
One comment says perhaps God created life on eath because he was lonely. He could still be feeling lonely. You can be lonely sitting in NY stock exchange. In trying to find answers we are getting more and more confused and creating words like ' infinite '
Something is fundamantally wrong with our understanding of life.
No Stacy, I don't think you need a teacher nor any enlightenment.

Castor said...

Dr. J,
I had the same experience you are talking about. Fortunately fear is almost completely gone! You are completely right about this.
Thanks for sharing it with us. I know some people who might benefit from it.
I tried to make my comment there, but my anonymous status prevented me from writing it.

rauf said...

Dear Stacey
apology no.2 for spelling your name wrong every where

Castor said...

Dr. J,
Even your ideas about dance and movement seem to coincide with my own ideas and experiences about movement. I had more than ten years of aikido practice behind me
and I loved to do and still do some "ecstatic dancing" or "free dance" as I call it on my own. Some time ago I got the idea of watching myself do aikido instead of doing it consciously, this has lead to some discoveries and new appreciation of the art of movement, which became more taichi-like as the time went by.
I think you are right about your
observations.

~j~ said...

Hi Beard,

You said:

Most people do not think that they spend more than 99% of their time day dreaming and think that "illusion" refers to something mysterious or complicated. It is very simple and clear as are all esoteric facts. They are just hidden from us by our own delusions and made to sound complicated specifically for the purpose of obfuscation.

and then asked:

What do you think about this idea of day dreaming all the time?

First off, thanks for the invitation to make a little chatter.


My initial response to what you wrote is to discover your method for knowing how "most people" think.

Otherwise, it appears to be a rather broad, and perhaps inaccurate, generalization.

For purposes of discussing the idea, I am satisfied that you think this way, and feel it is an unnecessary distraction to consider what "most people" think.

I agree that esoteric facts can be "hidden from us by our own delusions" -

Still more strongly, I feel that esoteric delusions can undermine the glory of plain old mundane reality.

I wonder what you mean by

"made to sound complicated specifically for the purpose of obfuscation."

Exactly who is making it sound complicated?

Finally, I would add, that by definition, esoteric is complicated, obtuse, and not for "most people".

___

Whatever logic and word games one wants to play, the fact remains, that a mind requires a body and the body is a real thing -

If you think this world is a dream, slam your hand in a car door, and the reality of this world and your body will demonstrate itself quite clearly.

All your thoughts will suddenly disappear in a flood of sensation brought to you from the real world via your real flesh.

How can the real world be the one that is the illusion?

This defies common sense, experience, and reason.

Far more tempting is to believe that thoughts are the illusions!

However, as I said, the mind is, of course, real too.

I say form requires mind and mind requires form. They are not antagonistic - they are synonomous.

_______

Many thanks to Stacey and all the commenters here for demonstrating the beautiful variety of One Truth.

Red Bark said...

~J~

It seems that I made many unsubstantiated claims. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

~j~ said...

Hi Beard

I think you are one of the many brilliant people who add their wisdom to the comments on this blog.

I welcome opportunities to explore here with you and/or Stacey, and/or anyone else.

Sometimes the "chatter" becomes harmonious and unique tunes are created.

I, for one, am enjoying the song, and the many beautiful voices...

Red Bark said...

~J~,

Thank you for your harmonious words.

I am sure that we will have many intersting discussions.

PROFESSOR SMILE said...

Exactly!
I wish a rewarding enjoyable 2006 to you Stacey, One & All! The enlightenment hide and seek goes on.

PROFESSOR SMILE said...

I just love people who have the guts to have an opinion - whether 'anyone else' agrees or disgrees with it.