I had this dream last weekend but I forgot to post it, so here it is. Late, but better late than never. --------
Someone takes a needle filled with salt water and sticks it in my arm, squirting the salt water inside. It stings badly.
10 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Stacey, Someone, whoever, is injecting wisdom or some teachings into you. To cleanse or purify you. At least that's what you think. Make sure it doesn't enslave you, or turn you into a timid thing. The arm also represents the power to defend or protect yourself; I hope nobody takes that away. I am hoping the best for you. I love you, even tho we are a world apart. I will be your friend no matter what.
Nothing can enslave me. I am un-enslave-able. I have great strength enough of my own and will power to keep myself from being enslaved. And it would be impossible for someone or something to turn me into a timid creature.
One of the things I like most about myself is my intelligence.
I think that what you say about my arm in the dream is true - because I really am strong and have enough power to defend and protect myself against whatever may come my way. No one or nothing can ever take away my power.
I love you too. That's a sweet thing to say. And I will always be your friend too, no matter what.
I can't help but notice the irony of this strength thing and the name I, Me, Mine. Thing is I don't see the matter as being strong and not letting the other overpower you or whatever, I see it as a reinforcement of separation.
So it's not to point the finger at you Stacey, but it's just to point out that reaction (quite natural of course) is really the opposite of what you wantin terms of enlightenment.
Mark, It's just a dream interpretation. Anyway, I believe in order to become a nobody, which is probably the idea many people have of enlightenment, you have to be a somebody first. If you are a nobody already without being a somebody first, then you end up being at the mercy of every powers that be, you end up being a follower or slave of any form of philosophy, religion, system, techniques, without knowing how and why. Being somebody means taking responsibility for your thoughts, feelings, and actions. If you are a passive follower of any or all kinds of system, you end up being a medium. That you have an opinion about something means you are thinking for yourself, that you are not just blurting things out like a medium. You have at least done some thinking for yourself. If you did, then you are being somebody and being responsible for yourself and your actions. Well, it's just my opinion. You don't have to accept it.
Well I was mainly responding to Stacey's reply to your post.
As far as this idea of being a somebody first, sure - but it's actually kind of hard to avoid as it is a part of the natural maturation process of a human being. Nobody is saying little babies should never individuate - that's not what we're talking about. I assume everyone able to be on this blog has developed a self to some extent.
So the question becomes what is an appropriate time to start shifting to the nobody stage, or actually just recognizing that it exists - if you can make such a distinction? Typically the whole thing is viewed as a sequential, linear process - but as with the post we had on Spiral Dynamics it was pointed out it's really a matter of simultaneous development on multiple lines.
Now before I go on let me just say I don't consider the ego as bad, but if you think you ARE an ego, this separate entity then that's where the difference lies. Being identified as a separate self is not the same as being able to function as such, and as I have mentioned in other posts there is an issue of how functional you are which also relates here.
So as far as the point on being subject to all kinds of powers and forces, I don't think it necessarily follows. Yes if you are in that kind of infantile stage of undifferentiated consciousness, that would apply - but that would be regression. I think Ken Wilber had called it the pre/trans fallacy. And actually if we are to view things rationally, then it actually is a matter of not being opinionated isn't it? Maybe it is only one definition but isn't opinion basically something one identifies with and held on to rather than something necessarily logically deduced? So it seems what saves you from those influences even at this level is not your self-ness but your ability to reason isn't it? If anything don't we see opinion often obscures reason, because people want to hang on to it in spite of logical reasoning to the contrary?
So to clarify, I made the point before not to say it is bad or something like that, but it is simply easy to unconsciously fall into this state in response to that energy from an external source. We see it all the time - people get into conflict, it becomes me against this other - but that doesn't have to be your whole reality. You can take care of things on the relative level and not get identified and have this existential angst over it or what have you. And frankly even when you are completely caught in that dynamic it is not to say it is bad or the decision and outcome would be bad, but you are caught. And it is easy to see how you can function better going beyond that, because you have a broader perspective rather than just this side, and you are aware of more from that perspective.
Mark, I agree. But whether you are a somebody or not, you are still a nobody. You should not worry about it. And you don't have to suppress it. There is nothing you can do. About opinion. Everybody has an opinion, whether you think you are a somebody or not. Just making sure we don't have any conflict because of opinion. Whatever.
No, not suppress it or pretend that you don't - but see it for what it is. There is far too much in the way of 'fake it till you make it' spirituality out there, which of course just becomes a new story we tell ourselves. Well this subject seem to be more appropriate to another thread so I will comment further there.
10 comments:
Stacey,
Someone, whoever, is injecting wisdom or some teachings into you.
To cleanse or purify you. At least that's what you think.
Make sure it doesn't enslave you, or turn you into a timid thing.
The arm also represents the power to defend or protect yourself; I hope nobody takes that away.
I am hoping the best for you. I love you, even tho we are a world
apart. I will be your friend no matter what.
Hi IMEMINE,
Nothing can enslave me. I am un-enslave-able. I have great strength enough of my own and will power to keep myself from being enslaved. And it would be impossible for someone or something to turn me into a timid creature.
One of the things I like most about myself is my intelligence.
I think that what you say about my arm in the dream is true - because I really am strong and have enough power to defend and protect myself against whatever may come my way. No one or nothing can ever take away my power.
I love you too. That's a sweet thing to say. And I will always be your friend too, no matter what.
I can't help but notice the irony of this strength thing and the name I, Me, Mine. Thing is I don't see the matter as being strong and not letting the other overpower you or whatever, I see it as a reinforcement of separation.
So it's not to point the finger at you Stacey, but it's just to point out that reaction (quite natural of course) is really the opposite of what you wantin terms of enlightenment.
Mark,
It's just a dream interpretation.
Anyway, I believe in order to become a nobody, which is probably the idea many people have of enlightenment, you have to be a somebody first. If you are a nobody already without being a somebody first, then you end up being at the mercy of every powers that be, you end up being a follower or slave of any form of philosophy, religion, system, techniques, without knowing how and why.
Being somebody means taking responsibility for your thoughts, feelings, and actions. If you are a passive follower of any or all kinds of system, you end up being a medium.
That you have an opinion about something means you are thinking for yourself, that you are not just blurting things out like a medium. You have at least done some thinking for yourself. If you did, then you are being somebody and being responsible for yourself and your actions.
Well, it's just my opinion. You don't have to accept it.
Hi Imemine,
Well I was mainly responding to Stacey's reply to your post.
As far as this idea of being a somebody first, sure - but it's actually kind of hard to avoid as it is a part of the natural maturation process of a human being. Nobody is saying little babies should never individuate - that's not what we're talking about. I assume everyone able to be on this blog has developed a self to some extent.
So the question becomes what is an appropriate time to start shifting to the nobody stage, or actually just recognizing that it exists - if you can make such a distinction? Typically the whole thing is viewed as a sequential, linear process - but as with the post we had on Spiral Dynamics it was pointed out it's really a matter of simultaneous development on multiple lines.
Now before I go on let me just say I don't consider the ego as bad, but if you think you ARE an ego, this separate entity then that's where the difference lies. Being identified as a separate self is not the same as being able to function as such, and as I have mentioned in other posts there is an issue of how functional you are which also relates here.
So as far as the point on being subject to all kinds of powers and forces, I don't think it necessarily follows. Yes if you are in that kind of infantile stage of undifferentiated consciousness, that would apply - but that would be regression. I think Ken Wilber had called it the pre/trans fallacy. And actually if we are to view things rationally, then it actually is a matter of not being opinionated isn't it? Maybe it is only one definition but isn't opinion basically something one identifies with and held on to rather than something necessarily logically deduced? So it seems what saves you from those influences even at this level is not your self-ness but your ability to reason isn't it? If anything don't we see opinion often obscures reason, because people want to hang on to it in spite of logical reasoning to the contrary?
So to clarify, I made the point before not to say it is bad or something like that, but it is simply easy to unconsciously fall into this state in response to that energy from an external source. We see it all the time - people get into conflict, it becomes me against this other - but that doesn't have to be your whole reality. You can take care of things on the relative level and not get identified and have this existential angst over it or what have you. And frankly even when you are completely caught in that dynamic it is not to say it is bad or the decision and outcome would be bad, but you are caught. And it is easy to see how you can function better going beyond that, because you have a broader perspective rather than just this side, and you are aware of more from that perspective.
Mark,
I agree. But whether you are a somebody or not, you are still a nobody. You should not worry about it. And you don't have to suppress it. There is nothing you can do.
About opinion. Everybody has an opinion, whether you think you are a somebody or not. Just making sure we don't have any conflict because of opinion.
Whatever.
No, not suppress it or pretend that you don't - but see it for what it is. There is far too much in the way of 'fake it till you make it' spirituality out there, which of course just becomes a new story we tell ourselves. Well this subject seem to be more appropriate to another thread so I will comment further there.
Mark,
Don't worry about other people faking it. It's their business.
Keep to your own illusions. There is still enough in there. Just a joke. ;>)
Imemine, of course illusions are always "your own". ;-)
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